In the age of the internet, or maybe, more specifically, search engines, there's simply no reason to argue over the kinds of things that people used to argue over in bars, at parties, or even at the water cooler at work. Very few of these arguments exist these days that can't be solved in the two minutes it takes to Google the issue at hand. That's kind of sad really. It means that the basis of some of the more entertaining conversations in life has been removed. Unless, of course, you enjoy arguing simply for argument's sake. Which I do. After all, sometimes it's not about the answer, but what you learn in getting to it.
One perspective on this is something I used to share with my high school students during the course of our conversations about research. They would complain about the number of sources I required on a given project. I would counter the complaint with something that's eternally effective along the lines of, "WHEN I WAS A KID we had to schedule our research activities around the times when the library was actually open. We had to use actual books, magazines, journals and we had to lug them around with us because we had to actually read them to find what we wanted. All YOU have to do these days is plug something into Google, anytime, anywhere there's a computer! So quit your whining!"
The goal of the research project from the teacher's perspective was to create a situation wherein the student found a topic so interesting that they forgot about getting the project done and actually wanted to learn something about the topic. In purist terms, that's the goal of any real research... learning about the topic as opposed to proving your thesis. That makes the internet a double-edged sword. While it's true that we can find everything about a topic much easier these days, that means it's also easier to zero in on the information that suits our purpose while ignoring all information to the contrary. Because of the ease of access to lots of information, we're more tempted to believe that our research is actually thorough and conclusive simply by the sheer volume of information we can easily find that proves our thesis, even if we found it by ignoring all the other information out there. That's not a new issue, it's just that this new method of information gathering makes it easier to accept our thesis by making it easier to grab a lot of info and easier to ignore info that doesn't suit our purpose.
It's kind of the same thing with arguing in bars, parties or at the watercooler these days. There's really no point in doing it. Instead of arguing over whether or not Kevin Bacon was really in that movie with that girl from another movie, we can just call up the Internet Movie Database and look it up. Of course, by doing that, we eliminate the conversation about every other movie we liked and disliked. We eliminate the, "Oh yeah, I almost forgot about that one... that was a GREAT movie! I'm going to have to rent that one again this weekend." We also eliminate the chances of learning more about our co-workers involved with us in the discussion.
It's in the argument that the real learning takes place. When we skip straight to the answer, we lose a lot of valuable information. My daughter had a math problem the other night that illustrates the point beautifully. She had to arrange five eights in a way that gave her nine. (not the fraction, five over eight, but five separate eights) She couldn't use plus or minus signs. That's the kind of problem where the typical rules of math must be remembered and suspended at the same time and actual thinking must occur. It's tempting to just find an answer key and look it up, but that's not nearly as satisfying as figuring it out. We probably could have Googled the problem and found the solution, but instead, I gave her a large blank sheet of paper and a calculator and told her to try as many options as she could think of. In essence, I told her to argue the point. She proposed thesis after thesis all leading her down the "wrong path," but getting her closer each time because each attempt furthered her understanding. She finally settled on a fraction using decimals that resulted in an answer like 9.0909 or something like that and she left it at that. The next night she came home with the preferred, and now obvious answer. She knew a lot more about that answer because of all the "wrong" answers she came up with on her own the night before. I could have made her continue until she got even more frustrated than she was that previous night, but we both knew this problem was one of those bonus problems given during the week before a long holiday break that didn't really count for a grade. It counted for something much more important than a grade and she'd already accomplished that goal. She discovered something she didn't know before she entered the argument. Only by arguing, even if her premises were "wrong" did that discovery come about. The exercise wouldn't have worked, the discovery process would never have happened, if she'd gone straight for the answer.
Socrates knew the value of argument. He understood how, if done well, the discovery process was a guaranteed by-product. He even created a teaching method based on this. Both he and his method have been tarnished over time in our rush to find answers. The Socratic method of teaching is a brilliant method to encourage real discovery in students, but not when students are conditioned only to give right answers. Our fragile egos don't allow real discussion, aka argument, anymore. The movie Legally Blond even goes so far as to paint The Socratic Method as little more than a ruthless way of attacking students. Unfortunately, these days, that's all people think arguing is - attacking. We've forgotten that in a real argument, learning takes place. We visit areas of knowledge that have either been mothballed, or perhaps are actually new. We create the conditions required for seeing things from different perspectives. We learn about the topic, about each other, about ourselves.
Folks don't seem as comfortable learning things these days, especially if we don't like what we're learning. In his book, Punk Rock, Monster Movies and the Truth about Reality Zen Master, Brad Warner, notes that meditation isn't easy and you might not like what you discover. He claims that the goal of doing it is self awareness and he jokes that most people abandon the mission as soon as any real awareness begins because we don't like what we become aware of.
I wonder if this same fear of awareness is at the root of the old rule, "never argue politics or religion." After all, in this age of the internet, there's really no need to argue anything. We can just look it up anytime, anywhere. Unless, of course, the purpose of the arguing isn't really to find THE answer, but rather to discover something... to gain more awareness, to learn, whether what we learn is about ourselves or the others in the argument.
Could it be that this rule protects us from ever discovering anything? After all, if we can just look up any information we want, then why bother discussing anything with anyone, ever? We can just go with the answers we know are out there and never have to worry about how others see it. For that matter, these answers existed long before the internet made them more readily available to us. With a little effort, we could have found them before computers ever existed. So why argue anything? Why discuss anything? Why have a conversation with other humans, ever?
Wow, that's a pretty bleak existence.
It's also the kind of existence created by the "tolerance" of things we're too polite to discuss. When we move anything off the table of discussion, as we have the topic of religious beliefs in this country under the guise of tolerance, we create a dead zone of discussion where no further discovery can take place. By agreeing to disagree about an issue and agreeing to never discuss it, we shut ourselves off to ever discovering any more about it. By claiming we know the answers, whether because we've looked them up in a book, or in a search engine, or whatever the source, we shut ourselves off from ever discovering any more about that topic - whether that discovery leads to moving others in our direction, or us moving in their direction, or - in my naive mind still blissfully tied to the idea of way too much faith in my fellow man - a mutual discovery in both parties.
Just as with my students and their research project, finding the answers isn't ever really the goal. Discovery is. These days, I'd like to discover a formula for existence on this Earth that leads to world peace. (I admit I'm naive and have way too much faith in my fellow man, but why not... I'm here, I might as well forward this arrogant agenda of mine) When I discuss this crazy idea with a lot people, they tell me it's not worth talking about. I'm used to that and I've discussed things that truly weren't worth talking about, at length, just to kill time, so I don't let that stop me. But what really frightens me is when people tell me, "it doesn't matter anyway because the world will end in apocalypse no matter what we do."
That bothers me because it's a cop out. In a world where we can "know" everything just by looking it up, it really burns me up when someone uses that "knowledge" as an excuse to do nothing. Maybe I'm way wrong about this and maybe the world really will end in an apocalypse over which we humans have no control whatsoever, but as long as the possibility of grandkids is a twinkle in my brain, I'm going to bring it up over and over and over. I may not be able to stave off this apocalypse (although I have a suspicion that we can) but I can at least push it back until my grandkids are out of the picture. I'd like to push it back until their grandkids are out of the picture. I'd like to think this crazy idea of humans living peacefully together is one of those things that all humans agree is worth arguing about even if the argument is, at times, uncomfortable.
I don't know much for sure about this world, but I know I want it to be a peaceful place for my kids to grow up, get old, and have these same kinds of amazingly satisfying discussions with their friends, enemies, and even their own kids. And I know that the answer to how this might happen isn't in a book or on the internet. The answer, if there is one, isn't something anyone can look up. It will only ever exist in the discussions and interactions among people. While there may be predictions in books about how our world will end, one way to guarantee such an end lies firmly in the refusal to discuss it.
I don't consider that refusal polite nor tolerant.
Happy Holidays,
Luth
Oh, and congrats on the rock, Laurie Doll!
5 comments:
"After all, sometimes it's not about the answer, but what you learn in getting to it."
And that's why I keep coming back.
You make some excellent points in this post. Points that I can accept much quicker than the ones in your previous post. In fact, the two posts almost seem to oppose each other. First you marginalize the religious taking away their rights to participate politically then you call for more serious religious dialog.
First, I believe religious dialog has increased in recent times. Going back to previous generations, there was little talk about candidate's religious beliefs other than questioning whether or not a Roman Catholic would be more beholded to Rome or to the American people. But, we jumped that hurdle with JFK. Then it questioned whether we could elect a Jew. Just the fact that Leiberman was named as the VP candidate of the dems indicates we have at least attempted to leap that hurdle.
Can you remember having religious questions come up as they have in the current presidential debates? I don't. This is not the first time Romney has run for office but now we are discussing Mormonism to a great degree. We are on the edge of having religious tests. Many evangelicals and religious conservatives have questioned whether or not Romney qualifies as presidential material based strictly on his Mormon beliefs. That concerns me.
You make a good point with your apocalypse reference. We evangelicals (I don't really put myself strictly in that camp, but for argument purposes I will lump us together) have often taken a "what will be, will be" approach using the term God's Will to explain away things. Do I believe that the book of Revelation prophecies about the end of the world as we know it? Sure. But, I have no idea of the time frame. Could be now, could be 1,000 years from now, could be 10,000 years from now. Down through history groups have tried to predict the return of Christ and the beginning of the end times, and every time they made fools of themselves. The supposed inevitibility of the apocalypse is a very poor reason to not do something. Anything.
But, there is a double edged sword. We conservative Christians have become more politically astute and involved in the process. That scares people like you because of the fear we will impose our beliefs on others if given the polical power. We will become the Christian Taliban.
So, we sit back eyeing each other warily each side absolutely sure the other will lead us down the proverbial path to hell in a handbasket. Your kind will take away my religious freedom and my kind will impose my religion on you.
Peace? Yep, we all want that. The Muslims I work with who are nice, decent people want it just as much as you and I do.
So, what do we do, outlaw all religion as the Beatles proposed back in the late 60s?
Luth, Merry Christmas. I hope you have a nice holiday. And keep the dialog going.
Merry Christmas to you too, my friend. As you might expect, I don't believe my last two posts conflict, but let's pick that up after Christmas.
Thank You - Happy Holidays - Peace, Hope and Love for the New Year too!
Ready to pick up the debate?
Check this out. A new book by Goldberg from The National Review entitled, "Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left, From Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning"
Here is part of the editorial review:
“Fascists,” “Brownshirts,” “jackbooted stormtroopers”—such are the insults typically hurled at conservatives by their liberal opponents. Calling someone a fascist is the fastest way to shut them up, defining their views as beyond the political pale. But who are the real fascists in our midst?
Liberal Fascism offers a startling new perspective on the theories and practices that define fascist politics. Replacing conveniently manufactured myths with surprising and enlightening research, Jonah Goldberg reminds us that the original fascists were really on the left, and that liberals from Woodrow Wilson to FDR to Hillary Clinton have advocated policies and principles remarkably similar to those of Hitler's National Socialism and Mussolini's Fascism.
Contrary to what most people think, the Nazis were ardent socialists (hence the term “National socialism”). They believed in free health care and guaranteed jobs. They confiscated inherited wealth and spent vast sums on public education. They purged the church from public policy, promoted a new form of pagan spirituality, and inserted the authority of the state into every nook and cranny of daily life. The Nazis declared war on smoking, supported abortion, euthanasia, and gun control. They loathed the free market, provided generous pensions for the elderly, and maintained a strict racial quota system in their universities—where campus speech codes were all the rage. The Nazis led the world in organic farming and alternative medicine. Hitler was a strict vegetarian, and Himmler was an animal rights activist.
Do these striking parallels mean that today’s liberals are genocidal maniacs, intent on conquering the world and imposing a new racial order? Not at all. Yet it is hard to deny that modern progressivism and classical fascism shared the same intellectual roots. We often forget, for example, that Mussolini and Hitler had many admirers in the United States. W.E.B. Du Bois was inspired by Hitler's Germany, and Irving Berlin praised Mussolini in song. Many fascist tenets were espoused by American progressives like John Dewey and Woodrow Wilson, and FDR incorporated fascist policies in the New Deal.
Scary stuff and interesting parallels to some current political thought.
That's funny... Hitler, a liberal, and a pagan... apparently the researchers who made this comparison never read Mien Kampf.
I enjoy checking out wacko theories and alternate perspectives, but unless they're for the purpose of humor (and this book doesn't sound funny) or rooted in some reality that I recognize, I can't generally drive myself to read them - or bother arguing why they're absurd.
I'm not sure where the debate is supposed to pick up from here.
I get that one man's fascism is another man's Bill of Rights... or that our liberal/conservtive labels represent a circular model rather than a linear model, hence, the further one goes in one direction, the more like his enemy he becomes, but this book and its comparision don't even merit this much typing from what I can gather from this review.
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